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getting discharged before being a vet but i am services connected
Last Post 04 Sep 2012 08:05 AM by coastguardveteran. 43 Replies.
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prior2012User is Offline
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06 Apr 2012 06:47 AM
The issue here seems to revolve around whether or not a potential service member will be able to follow orders - including both those that are more abstract and policy-driven from the Commander-In-Chief to those that are more concrete and substantial issuing from an immediate supervisor. As service members we salute and execute. As service members "we follow orders, or people die. It's that simple." (couldn't resist the Few Good Men quote). Another time honored phrase that bears on this situation is "theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do and die."

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06 Apr 2012 07:10 AM
There is a Marine currently being masted, possibly court martialed and being removed from service because on his facebook account he has criticized the President. Not something innane, something to the point that it caught the eyes of his superiors and he is being discharged for it. There is an old saying "Say it, forget it; Write it, regret it." Keep writing these things... You'll regret it, I won't.
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06 Apr 2012 09:05 AM
Allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a moment..

I agree we who serve swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, and to follow the orders o the Officers appointed above us. So.. yes. We are duty and honor bound to enforce and support the laws and lawful orders passed to us.

But, I am also an ivdividual outside of my uniform and my service. I have my opinions/beliefs, and as long as I represent myself and fall within the standards of good order and discipline I can offer my opinion. I can vote for the candidates I feel are best for political office based on the laws/policies they oppose or support. If I choose I can attend political rallies and donate money to support political candidates. And, I can express my opinions good or bad about the current administration and cast my vote accordingly. As long as I do it as an individual.

Granted there is a fine line. One we in the military have to walk carefully. But, there is written guidance on what's acceptable and what's not.
“I’m not in this world to live up to your expectations and you’re not in this world to live up to mine.” ― Bruce Lee
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06 Apr 2012 10:20 AM
Gandler, regarding the ability of a completely free market to 1. regulate itself and 2. protect the consumer, I refer you back to your high school US history lessons.
Start with a review of the years from about 1850 to the early 20th century, with special attention paid to the Industrial Revolution, the Golden Age and the impact of the 'robber barons' on both the economy (see: monopoly and oligopoly) and working conditions for the general public.
Follow up with a re-reading of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" and a history of the Neill-Reynolds report to President T. Roosevelt.
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06 Apr 2012 10:46 AM
I've read The Jungle.. "Hey boss! Harry fell into the meat grinder."
"So he did. That's too bad."
“I’m not in this world to live up to your expectations and you’re not in this world to live up to mine.” ― Bruce Lee
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06 Apr 2012 10:59 AM
"The Jungle" is one of my very favorite books of all time. Very sad though, when their child dies. That book was partly responsible for the creation of the FDA.
You can meet the standard, or you can set the standard. It's your choice.
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06 Apr 2012 11:23 AM
I love KD, she offers such amazing arguments! I just stick my tongue out and blow raspberries! HAHA
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06 Apr 2012 11:56 AM
OldGuard2 ......wouldn't be here without you!


I think what's getting under my skin is a lot of people near where I live using the term 'libertarian' to advocate 'doing whatever I feel like any way I want to, while insulting anyone who disagrees with me.'

Kind of like in The Princess Bride: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means".

And yes, The Jungle and it's consequent investigations WERE part of what kicked off the formation of some government regulation of certain industries.
Just because you can get your neighbor to buy it at a lower price, and he's poorer than you, doesn't mean it should be okay to sell him, for example, contaminated flour. But...there didn't use to be any law against it. And frankly, laws against unfair measures and contaminated foods go all the way back to Old Testament texts. So....if we would like to begin a discussion of, say, common law or justice---BRING IT! XD
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06 Apr 2012 02:06 PM
KD, et al., you raise an interesting argument regarding regulation and the food industry. To apply the lessons learned from the book The Jungle to a modern controversy, how do you think Sinclair would respond to Lean Finely Textured Beef, aka "Pink Slime?" According to the beef industry the filler has been used for nearly two decades, and it is approved by the US Department of Agriculture. Doesn't this raise issues about the FDA?

I know this issue is quite debatable and controversial, so I'll understand if you don't want to comment on it. However, it does appear to serve as a modern example for your argument regarding the food industry and regulation.
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06 Apr 2012 03:07 PM
No system works perfectly, and anything run by people is subject to corruption, both financial and otherwise.

In the case of the 'Pink Slime' (which is disgusting), one of my favorite constitutionally-provided freedoms has come into play to reel the nonsense back in---Freedom of the press, as guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, Amendment 1.
Then the market does come in: people decide not to buy it, and thankfully in this case, have other options.

The stuff doesn't seem to be poisonous, especially if it has been in use for nearly two decades, unlike a lot of the stuff that was freely marketed before there was any legal recourse at all. Gross, yes. Toxic, not so much.

Caveat emptor is awesome for the vendor, but it doesn't provide much cover when things go wrong.
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06 Apr 2012 03:45 PM

Posted By prior2012 on 06 Apr 2012 03:06 PM
KD, et al., you raise an interesting argument regarding regulation and the food industry. To apply the lessons learned from the book The Jungle to a modern controversy, how do you think Sinclair would respond to Lean Finely Textured Beef, aka "Pink Slime?" According to the beef industry the filler has been used for nearly two decades, and it is approved by the US Department of Agriculture. Doesn't this raise issues about the FDA?

I know this issue is quite debatable and controversial, so I'll understand if you don't want to comment on it. However, it does appear to serve as a modern example for your argument regarding the food industry and regulation.

Pink Slime keeps costs down. And allows the makers to take more out of every cow so less goes to waste. If they stop Pink Slime we will have to kill more cows to get the same amount of beef.
The gross pictures are just scare tactics by the media and do not reflect the health of the product. Any part of butchering is gross. Pink Slime is not significantly more unhealthy than any red meats.

This whole pink slime thing was probably started by the chicken farmers association or somebody who is competing with beef.

But I agree about the FDA being corrupt, there is a lot to raise issues about them. They have a horrible drug testing program, they are susceptible to lobbyists and they put unfair restrictions on the tobacco industry. The FDA is well known to be corrupt. Monsanto and Phillip Morris practically own them. And they unfairly crack down on the Amish and small businesses.

This is just one of many problems which comes when the government tries to regulate the free market. There is always the potential for lobbying and the government will always give certain corporations priority over others depending on how many contributions and promises they can make.
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06 Apr 2012 03:54 PM
Isn't Phillip Morris part of the tobacco industry?
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06 Apr 2012 04:02 PM

Posted By KD on 06 Apr 2012 04:54 PM
Isn't Phillip Morris part of the tobacco industry?

Yes. Phillip Morris is the biggest American tobacco company. But they lobby the FDA for stricter tobacco regulations. Because they can afford the regulations the smaller companies cannot. They are trying to put all of the small tobacco companies out of business so they can have a tobacco monopoly.

And they also try to lobby the FDA to ban all tobacco flavors that the other companies use, but none of the flavors that they use.
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04 Sep 2012 08:05 AM
To answer the OP question, yes you are a veteran and if you are service connected above 30% you are eligible for ALL VA benefits. If you are below 30% you are only eligible for treatment for what you are service connected for. Your CoC has nothing to do with it.
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