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Boot Camp Discharge
Last Post 03 Aug 2018 04:47 PM by magmam. 22 Replies.
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JessicaDuncanUser is Offline
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JessicaDuncan

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06 Aug 2017 12:53 PM
    Hello, 
    My son just got to Cape May and called to tell me he is 4% over the weight restriction and is being discharged and sent home. He is absolutely devastated but is adamant about joining the Coast Guard. He mentioned that he can reapply in 6 months. Can he reapply? If so, how long will he have to wait? Any and all information on this would be greatly appreciated as we are all a little shocked because of how much he wanted this.
    Thanks in advance for any information. 
    Thank you!
    Jessica Duncan
    CPORJMUser is Offline
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    06 Aug 2017 01:33 PM
    He already told you. He can reapply in six months. Not to sound rude, inconsiderate, etc, but if he wanted it badly enough, he would have made sure his weight wasn't going to be a problem going in. Typically, recruiters won't allow their applicants to ship unless they're five pounds under their maximum allowable weight. Either the recruiter let this slip, or there's something else happening
    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."-Jonathan Swift
    Old Guard2User is Offline
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    Old Guard2

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    07 Aug 2017 06:09 PM
    Yes, he absolutely can apply again. The problem is will a recruiter entertain giving him a second try? They might, they might not. It is difficult if he was taped and was over the BMI. They all get something just a little different. That's why the 5 pounds under is generally the standard, some recruiters require 10 pounds under!! Don't let him lose focus if this is something he really wants. He can do it. He will just have to really work to convince a recruiter to give him a second chance! Very, very best of luck to him.
    Sector NY, Staten Island
    fjm59vetteUser is Offline
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    fjm59vette

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    20 Oct 2017 09:27 PM
    So I got my 3rd week 5 call at 8PM or so..  he's now going to RHE to await a discharge or a review hearing. 

    my son was Ramped in B195, ramped so hard that he ruptured a blood vessel and bled through his eye,,,,,  he was taken to the hospital for it ...   one CC rode him real hard..  I've since heard this cc was removed or fired....   hmmmm

    Got the second call at the end of week 5 in Charlie Co  which was 2 weeks back ---  he  was reverted to Delta .... a half written letter found in his Rucksack..  hmmm  --  Thinking maybe the fired CC peppered his file.    I asked and He advised passed both the PT and Midterms no problem .....   PS  was advised in a letter he got orders,  was to be sent to Camp LeJune to DSF...... we that wow  cool & rare 

    PS got a letter from our son after 3 weeks of nothing ..... that told us about the Ramping and Bleeding eye but he remained committed to Graduating which went from 10/20 to 11/9 - we were shocked to find that out - his Mom was concerned cause bleeding through your eye from internet search not cool. 

    Finally got the last call at about 8 pm tonight,  to say he was "reverted" again and is now being sent to Regimental Holding to await a decision on Monday on whether he is being discharged, or will go before a review board.  He would have to wait 2 weeks for discharge.  3 weeks for the board to review his case, where he mentioned he could quite possibly be sent back week 4 or even week 1. I asked why this time and he mentioned is was about having to much spring in his step while marching .......... what ?

    My son is a small kid but could ramp off push ups and situps like no problem - played soccer so could run the mile no problem  .... went to the recruiters ready sessions and had no issues.  Scored very high on ASVAB.  But I gather he couldn't hold a mattress over his head for 20 minutes, so ASVAB don't matter now. 

    Quite honestly my kid has no quit, and I will support his decision either way,  and if discharged will support and encourage him when he gets back home .  But honestly it seems like every time he gets to the part where maybe there some positive motivation he is beat down. 

    I also find it odd that the CC who rode him mercilessly was new and since removed.  He mentioned that other cc's were heard telling him to chill out cause he was that bad 

    JS 


    So what is the process at this point - what should we expect!


    kegs512User is Offline
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    kegs512

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    21 Oct 2017 06:14 AM
    My kid's been at Cape May for over 4 months working through a stress fracture, so I've become pretty familiar with the procedures there. I hate to tell you, but if your son has been ramp'd and reverted 3 times, he is not suited to the CG. The CC's are really good at weeding out recruits. They have reasons for doing everything they do. I haven't heard about any CC's being fired so I don't think that's an accurate statement.

    There is a possibility if he goes before the board they will let him stay but he has to make a convincing case for himself. If not, he will be held at DHE doing general work detail (cleaning, painting, etc) for a period of time until they can arrange for him to leave. He will come home on a Friday after graduation. You won't hear from him about his plane arrangements until he leaves on the bus to go to the airport.

    fjm59vetteUser is Offline
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    fjm59vette

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    21 Oct 2017 07:37 AM
    As a parent why would you hear if a new CC was removed. I don't think that is info they really want as common knowledge. 
     
    Do you know what they go through in Ramp which is non stop IT,  and alienation, then to get Reverted 2x,  sounds to me that's meant to weed you out and make you quit. He didn't. 

    He is still there, and  looking for a review board because he still wants it! 

    Me, I would have bailed 













    kegs512User is Offline
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    21 Oct 2017 01:37 PM
    Please consider that you may not be getting the full story from your son. Most recruits that go through ramp come out better and more squared away. Yours got reverted after ramp for a well known rule violation. And then another reversion for a sketchy reason. I really hope he is able to make a good case in front of the board to be able to continue if that is what he wants. He will need to work hard in RHE also. Please continue to send encouraging letters. Good luck to him.
    fjm59vetteUser is Offline
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    fjm59vette

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    21 Oct 2017 04:05 PM
    We don't know what the reason he got reverted from his original company Bravo after Ramp...  He never said.   He gotten written up so many times by this CC he automatically got sent to RAMP

    He got reverted from Charlie ..  for the letter in Rucksack and owned it.   but then he lies ... nah!

    don't know what the final reason for removal from Echo to RHE.

    I always consider that I'm not getting the full picture since I'm not there,  but have no reason to believe my son would lie. 

    He passed PT, Mids, Fire,  the pool,  got his assignment to JMTC at Lejune for DSF - Rare ...... wasn't what he originally requested,,,  but was like hey that's Bad A$$. 

    and considering the that the CC who wrote him up and ramped him,  got removed we consider what he said with even more weight.

    Now after being reverted 3 times and run through week 4 & 5 ----> 3x,  he's burning out.   No positive's all negatives....

    Now from what I learned from his Friday night call he awaits either Dismissal or Review - he wants Review.   I personally could care less,,  they could send him home and I'll put him through the Police Academy down here.  



    mkellyUser is Offline
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    21 Oct 2017 05:33 PM
    I would say your best bet would be to call his recruiter or make an appointment to go see the recruiter . Have the recruiter contact boot camp to see if you can get a well rounded story. Something doesn't seem right here. I have talked to a good amount of people that have been in ramp and none of them have described it as non stop PT and alienation. Hope that your son hasn't been mistreated and I hope he hasn't been deceiving you. One of these has happened though and neither of them are good.
    Maybe I can alleviate some of your stress on the eye bleed. A subconjunctival hematoma can be caused by a cough or sneeze and are typically harmless. A Hyphema (which is A LOT less likely) is typically caused by blunt trauma to the eye..... This would be caused by a very hard hit to the eye itself and is unlikely. I worked sports medicine for 6 years before the Coast Guard and only saw it once. Thats not to say it can't happen, but its unlikely.
    If all of these reversions were caused by one CC, that would mean he would have to be in cahoots with the entire command at cape may. One single CC can't send somebody to ramp. If this is the case, this would most likely be one of the craziest misconduct perpetrated against one recruit in a long time.
    I hope your son's physical well being and mental health are not worn down and everything works out for the positive. Hopefully you can get some clarification on the issue.
    fjm59vetteUser is Offline
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    fjm59vette

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    21 Oct 2017 07:27 PM
    MK good suggestion on the recruiter. My son did delayed entry and did all the PT prepare sessions set up by the recruiter prior to being shipped off, the recruiter was very excited about him and thought he would have no issues and be very successful at camp. He scored very high on ASVAB, could have gotten anything but Aviation. That's why this is so shocking to us.

    I get what you are saying about one bad cc not being able to dictate the fate of a recruit which should make sense. but I have been reading a lot about all this stuff, I know if your written up a certain amount of times you go into RAMP automatically, so if one cc has written you up on a shit load of stuff you get RAMP'd. I have also read where you are removed from your company and if you do get sent back for training or class you have to wear vests that signify you are in RAMP. I have also read that its second most difficult Camp other then Marines and its all about creating intense stress. 8 weeks of 7 days a week 5:30 - lights out.

    Things definitely don't add up. But I also believe once you get peppered with write -ups its in your file and follows you. and there are far fewer recruits per year then the other branches

    As for the bleeding, it was not a Subconjunctival hematoma, it was due to a blocked nasal passage, and allergies & sinus infection, something ruptured above the nasal blockage and the only place for the blood to come out was through his tear ducts / eyes, nasolacrimal duct . This is what a specialist told him and he let us know in his last letter. They didn't know this at first. Imagine your state of mind seeing that shit while being ramped.

    At this point I am concerned about his mental and physical state, and quite frankly hope they discharge him.

    fjm59vetteUser is Offline
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    fjm59vette

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    22 Oct 2017 03:19 PM
    someone wrong this

    " RAMP is awful. I never experienced it, but one of my CC's was a sadistic ME1 who told us he loves being Lead for RAMP because you can just beat people all day. Recruits in RAMP wear Orange PFD shells so everyone knows they are in RAMP, they get extra attention in the galley and on the Regiment. Don't go to RAMP, regular recruit life if hard enough, you don't want 4 days of straight up beatings."

    So gives more weight to what my kid told me.
    mkellyUser is Offline
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    mkelly

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    22 Oct 2017 06:30 PM
    Okay, So I will try to address some issues here for you. I think your best bet is to call the recruiter.
    You are taking the word of someone who wrote "RAMP is awful, I have never experienced it" Do you see the flaw in that? As a parent, that sounds like a conversation I have with my kids at least once a week. I say, why don't you try the lasagna? They say oh lasagna is disgusting. I say, you have never tried it before...its delicious. They say, no its disgusting.I guess I should take their word for it and stop eating the lasagna.
    The CC's don't want you to think RAMP is amazing. Why would they portray RAMP as amazing. They don't want you to go. They want you to succeed the first time. Here, I would suggest you speak to somebody who has actually had a successful ride through RAMP. I never went, and I didn't want to go. I have talked to somewhere between 7 and 10 people who have gone and told me it turned out to be a positive and necessary experience in the end. Of course you get extra attention. Thats what happens when you screw up in boot camp and in life. I can promise you it isn't 4 days of straight beatings. Ask your son's recruiter what the limitations are for ramp when you are finding out what really happened with your son. Guess what happens at the galley? Everybody gets special attention whether you're in RAMP or not. Everybody gets put on the spot. If you don't know a general order or a question of the day, more pressure is put on....more attention is given to you. If I screw up at work somebody could die or I could die....and then what happens...A whole lot of attention is put on me and what I did wrong. Ask the person who's word you are taking about ramp, who has never been to ramp, about the one on one time you get with a CC. Ask them about the calm explanations and extra attention they received to help their motivation or guide them in the right direction.

    The second thing I would like to address is what you said about your son bleeding through the eye. You said he got ramped so hard that he ruptured a blood vessel and bled through his eye. Later you said it was due to a nasal blockage/allergies/sinus. Unless RAMP has some crazy way to block nasal passage ways, give somebody allergies, and or give him a sinus infection, then he didn't get ramped so hard he bled through his eyes. Hey got sinus infected so hard/allergies so hard/nasal blockage so hard that he bled through his eyes.
    Everybody has a different experience through boot camp. I wouldn't describe it as out of control stressful. I can say without a doubt it was the most annoying 8 weeks of my life but not the most stressful.
    Where did you hear that the CC got removed? Is this a fact?
    The letter in his rucksack is a lie. Don't you see that? He was hiding it from his CC's. He was being deceitful to his company commanders and they found out. Can you see how that looks from the outside. The CC's are very clear on what you can and cannot do. He was breaking a rule and hiding it. Just because he told you about his deceit, doesn't mean he is all of the sudden not able to lie anymore.
    Once again, I really hope your son hasn't been mistreated. Please let us know of any more facts you may receive. I understand that people can have bad experiences but it has been my experience that the Coast Guard has been good to me and my family.
    fjm59vetteUser is Offline
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    22 Oct 2017 11:39 PM
    Sir don't be condescending - I am 58 years old and have lived a full life and been through many positive and negative things in my life. I am also not naïve enough to think that it's not possible for my son, or any of my children could lie, for any host of reasons in a stressful situation. I have raised 3 children. One of which is in Law Enforcement. I have coached PAL soccer and know what children are capable of doing or saying in stress situations. But you should not jump to the conclusion, or certainty that my son is lying either.

    Logically if he was that "type" he could have quit at any time and has not. He's continued on thru Ramp, two reversions and a RH. Even after I have said "son you could quit at any time and we will support your decision whatever you decide.

    Now You may not want to consider that those, in people management, in the military don't go awry. But don't consider me naïve enough not to consider the possibility. There are constant reminders that it does happen.

    It wasn't just that one post, I have read many more instances, blogs and internet postings that talk about RAMP, reversions, rephrases, etc. Some even written by CC's.

    You said they don't alienate .... the Orange shells mentioned is obvious a tactic to segregate, identify and alienate and create controlled stress as you call it. I have seen it in photos taken and posted of his company where someone was wearing it in a class.

    The letter in his Rucksack is a Rules Violation - he didn't lie to me about it - he told me about it. If this makes him unworthy of being a Coastie, or Failure to Adapt, so be it. Discharge him.

    In short you have your position to defend USCG Boot Camp practices and I have my concerns. Just consider that the Mental & Physical welfare of my child is paramount to me.

    Best Regards










    Old Guard2User is Offline
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    23 Oct 2017 01:25 PM
    The comment "beatings" was not in anyway in the literal sense. I take a beating at work, it doesn't mean I'm leaving work bruised and battered at the end of the day. It just means my psyche is a bit battered and bruised, not my actual body.

    Speaking of condescending talk, you're pretty good at it. MKelly is a respected member of this forum and a respected Coast Guardsman. There are 3 sides to every story, your sons, the CC and somewhere between the truth. You need not speak to a person already serving, having gone through boot camp with such a tone.

    As to the letter on his person, they are told quite specifically they are not allowed to have those. If he is willing to break such a silly inconsequential order, what happens when he disobeys the really big ones. The ones that matter, that could cost MKelly, the petty officer you're speak to, his life. What if it cost your son's life? You want to encourage him to quit, brava sir, you've taught your child to give up. My son was reverted twice. There was no ramp when he was there. I told him stay the course, you don't quit. He knew if something would have happened and he came home of course he would be welcomed back and there was nothing that would be said in a negative way. But he was also told stay, try, do, complete. He is a second class petty officer, almost 9 years on active duty. To belittle a Coast Guardsman that is trying to help and to encourage your son no big deal, go to the police academy, you really aren't offering the best guidance. Also unless you are in a backwater little podunk town with 2 cops, most forces almost require a Bachelor's Degree. He could get that while in the CG and use his GI Bill (or whatever it is called now) and then serve a police department. Oh well, you won't listen. I'm sure you'll have some witty and annoying answer to me. But that's ok, bring it, I don't care, I can take it.
    Sector NY, Staten Island
    m1ashooterUser is Offline
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    23 Oct 2017 10:32 PM
    I've been following recruit companies for two years.  Here are my observations as a former USAF Officer who is 60 years old and whose son went through Cape May at 18 years almost two years ago.  Boot Camp is hard, it has to be.  The Company Commanders are well trained and screened.  They are hard, tough and fair.  They have to be because they are training men and women to join the fleet which is a hazardous place to be.  The sea doesn't forgive mistakes.  I have read countless posts from parents who think the Company Commanders are harsh, but you know what, after my sons graduation he marched over to our family group grabbed his sister and her camera and sought out his Company Commanders for a group picture.  They made him sweat, pushed him, challenged him and the end result made him ready to serve with the fleet.

    Ramp isn't a fun place, no extra training is, but it is designed to help the recruit.  The same thing is true about being reverted.  I have the rule book for recruits on my desk.. Did you know a recruit will be reverted if their padlock is not set to zero? Sounds harsh and unreasonable.  The things they must learn are a lot and they must do it in a short time or they will face more training until they master the material.

    Those who don't master the massive amount of information and procedures or willingly break a rule will be reverted.  If they still don't grasp it they will be separated.

    25% of those who formed with my son on week one didn't graduate with the company.  Some quit, one couldn't pass the PT tests and was sent home and the rest reverted.

    If there is a bad Company Commander the Command Staff will deal with him or her and if it was found that a recruit was treated unfairly or singled out, the Command Staff will deal with that also.  You see I have met and interacted with many USCG Petty Officers and every one of them are very good people so I have confidence that they will do the right thing.

    I feel your concern as a parent because we all want our sons and daughters to succeed.   If you son is sent home then make sure your son holds his head high.  At least he tried, thats more the 99% of his peer did.
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    27 Oct 2017 03:04 PM
    fjm...

    Do not encourage your son to quit and to accept a discharge, as it will negatively reflect against him for any law enforcement or firefighting civil service type job. If it happens it happens but please do not encourage it. I did the hiring for my fire department for 12 years, anything less then an "honorable discharge" with service time completed, you got cut from the hiring process. Basically, if the military branch you are in will not accept you or take you back why would a paramilitary type service hire you, they wont. It sucks but I had to pass on several kids that had something other than honorable on their DD214's.

    I really hope he gets a hearing and it goes well and he works through all of the set backs...as he will come out a much stronger man, both mentally and physically, standing taller and prouder for doing so! It sucks what he is going through but he can beat it and come out the other end better...tell him that and tell him he can do it and do not give up. The other side is soooo much better.

    Be safe and enjoy.
    I want to finally set it free, So show me how to see what Your mercy sees, Help me now to give what You gave to me...Forgiveness, Forgiveness
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    27 Oct 2017 03:09 PM
    JessicaDuncan...when your son gets home, set him straight on a good solid eating plan and exercise program. Hide the playstation, or better sell it and have a 6 month plan laid out and have him commit to it. Have him show his recruiter he is serious and wants it and that he can follow through with the plan!

    Do, or Do Not, there is no Try!

    Lots of stories about weight and tape in the past, they got very serious about it and your son will have to be very serious about it for his entire career if he chooses to go back and be successful.
    I want to finally set it free, So show me how to see what Your mercy sees, Help me now to give what You gave to me...Forgiveness, Forgiveness
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    23 May 2018 10:49 AM
    Is this response still applicable in regards to weight versus BMI?  A family member called and said they were being sent home this same similar reason.
    magmamUser is Offline
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    23 May 2018 03:12 PM
    just consider the rules on weight for a recruit as set in stone. There is no wiggle room on the plus side, regardless of build
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    28 Jul 2018 11:04 AM
    I left for basic training on July 10th with India 196 and got discharged for being 5% over the allowable BMI. It was a shock because they did my weight and height at MEPS the morning I shipped and yes I was 4lbs over so they did my measurements and I passed the BMI % there just fine. I have a lot of muscle on me due to sports and weight lifting so that's why I was a bit over the allowable weight for my height. I passed the BMI though so that's why it threw everyone for a loop when I got discharged. When I told me recruiter she was shocked and said "that makes absolutely no sense" she is willing to work with me and send me back in 6 months..she's actually very adamant about it and has checked in with me every day since getting discharged.
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    28 Jul 2018 03:02 PM
    I thought BMI was not used until after you were completely in service
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    Old Guard2

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    03 Aug 2018 02:58 PM
    They changed that rule Mag, they can use BMI in boot. But you fail one or both, especially both, you're gone.
    Sector NY, Staten Island
    magmamUser is Offline
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    magmam

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    03 Aug 2018 04:47 PM
    Thanks OG! I know the rules are always changing!
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