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I had to write this, even if it's too long to read
Last Post 01 May 2010 07:36 PM by husband. 36 Replies.
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 28 Apr 2010 03:22 AM |
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Most of my life, I've been fairly anti-military for one reason or another. When the recruiters started calling in my junior year of high school, I'd go out of my way to make them feel uncomfortable, giving all sorts of reasons why I was not willing to talk to them: death was not a proper career choice for me; homosexuality sounded more fun and profitable; I get yelled at and marched around enough by my family; etc, etc. Back then, I had no idea what I really wanted to do with my life. I was an artist and a nerd at the same time, struggling somewhat with an identity crisis, and my only concrete desire was to be on my own, out from under oppressive thumbs and rules. In what seemed like a gift from the gods, three months before graduation I landed a job as a multimedia designer. This was my dream job; all other offers were to be refused.
Nine months later, I was laid off. The dot-com bubble had burst, and all of our firm's clientele were shaving their budgets for multimedia projects because "the web was dying." I ended up working for my family just to make ends meet, coming around full-circle. A half year later two jetliners pierced the World Trade Center towers. A war was about to get underway, and there was talk amongst my peers that a new draft may come to fruition. At that point, I started considering joining the Air Force, feeling that it would be better to die a fly boy than cannon fodder. Still, dying isn't really my style, and by March 2003 I was so angry at the state of our country that I vowed to actively speak out against all of America's military injustice.
It was about this time that I started to change ethically as well. Feeling that my anger at the world was going to suffocate me if I couldn't calm down, I began walking a road of non-violence, of pacifism. For the past eight years now, the concept of ahimsa, of doing no harm, has been one that I've felt very aligned with. It has influenced my politics, my personal philosophy—my entire outlook on life. It's the original reason for one of my proudest convictions, my veganism. I couldn't see how a military life could ever be reconciled with this.
Somewhere in there, I started working at a small sign shop. I learned the trade quickly, became the shop foreman, took on all of the shop responsibilities: design, installation, crew organization, customer relations... and all for a pittance above minimum wage and no benefits. I stuck with it for two years, though, because I loved the work and I was pretty care-free at that point. What finally tipped me over the edge, though, was my boss: a minority himself, he was an unrelenting racist, especially toward latinos, a sexist, a classist, and an all-around lout. I couldn't take it anymore. I could handle the work, I could handle how he treated me, but not my crew, not our customers... not even his own wife dodged his attacks. I left the sign shop, determined never again to be a part of such a morally bankrupt enterprise, to support and even encourage such a blight on our society. And honestly, especially with the geopolitical climate at that time, I saw the military as another facet of such social injustice.
So I went to school. After five years on the educational lam, I entered college, first as a vehicle engineering student, then, when it became clear that I was being trained to help ruin the environment, as a computer science major. This actually suited me just fine since I'd been programming in one form or another since I was 16, creating interactive websites and such, first as school projects, then as a professional employee, then as an occasional freelancer on the side. Three years as a computer science major, more than three quarters of a degree finished, and I was feeling pretty good about things. Then, out of the blue, at the beginning of my senior year, the department essentially came under the rule of corporate sponsorship. New computers, new programs, new hardare, even new furniture was being purchased. Many of my fellow students felt this was a windfall, but I couldn't take it. My education had been corrupted: I was now being groomed as an employee for a well-known software giant. My education, the things that I felt were actually important, just disappeared.
So I quit school. And saddled with a huge educational debt, I began a desperate search for work. One would think that with almost a decade of software development experience and a fair bit of formal education on top of that, I could find something to sustain my wife and me, but life is not a rational series of events, and for six months I was out of work with no unemployment and always being overqualified or not the right candidate for jobs ranging from software engineer to fiberglass tech. It was at this time that I really started to find myself politically: radical, class-conscious, socialist, anarchist.
Finally, I did find a job, and not due to any of my real skills: I had briefly driven a forklift while working for my family in a furniture warehouse, slow and infrequent moving of relatively light things. Apparently, though, this was enough experience to get me a job with a cereal manufacturer as a materials handler, driving half-ton totes of product around a dangerous production floor for twelve-hour shifts. It was draining work, and again, for well-below a living wage. I got into debt just to keep the heat on at my rented house, 55°F at night, 60°F during the day. Even as I became the leader of my driving team, as I lead our crew to record production by helping streamline our processes and reduce accidents, I became resentful of my position, and of the people who controlled my fate.
And it wasn't just my fate I was worried about, but everybody that I worked with. All of the production crews had been promised cost-of-living and performance raises just before I became an employee. While driving forklift, those raises were canceled all three times we were supposed to receive them. Then people started getting fired for contrived reasons, essentially political and financial killings. All of this, and the company was growing at a rate of almost 30% a year.
I wanted to quit, but I knew I couldn't. I was bound to this job because there just wasn't anything else around. I'd kept looking for jobs, for something that I would feel ethically comfortable with, or use my actual skills, or make a bit more money to get out of debt, but I got no bites. If I sent three résumés a week, three rejections would be my reward, month after month. Finally, out of desperation, on a very long shot, I took the initiative and wrote a rationale and job description for a new position in the company, one that I would fill. This job would make life for the workers easier, make the production lines more efficient, and overall make the company more profitable and a better place to work. I proposed that I become their automation engineer and design a system for the plant to track every ounce of product produced, waste created, material used, etc, and all from the machinery that was already in use on the plant floor. Six months later, much to my surprise, that's exactly the task I was given.
I was given an actual raise, my own computer and flexible hours, and told to hop to it. And I did, at first. See, while I thought I'd be creating a sophisticated system with which to run the plant and help the workers, the way it actually turned out is that I'm essentially creating a system to spy on the people who I once worked side-by-side with, those laborers who I would move product to and from, who would help me clean at the end of the shift, who were struggling just as much to pay the rent. My bosses wanted me to design a system first to track their progress and their mistakes, then add "features" where they'd have to explain their actions, sign on and off their stations for every little thing, account for the weight of he dust on the floor that their machines made. It turns out my job is not to make the workplace better, but to make it even more miserable.
I have to admit though, it's working from the bottom-line perspective. Waste in the plant has been cut in half, production is up 50%, and man-hours are down almost 12%, and all largely because of the work I've been doing. Even in the middle of this recession, the company's grown sales-wise 15%, a growth that's not supposed to be possible. But the human cost of all this "success" is extremely high: our workforce has been severely reduced, by about 15%; wages have stayed stagnant; firings and lay-offs have become a regular cycle with fewer and fewer new employees being hired to replace those who have left; and sick-time has gone up markedly as morale has clearly lowered, creating "justification" for the firings.
I'm still doing this job now, but I want out. I feel that the hierarchy in our society, one based on class and race and gender, is becoming more and more concentrated in places such as this. Those without the power are powerless to improve their situations, to be treated fairly, and I'm sick of being an agent of this oppression. I don't just want to do no harm, I actually want to be a righter of wrongs, to be on the side of good and justice for humanity and all creatures. I look around me when I work and I want to cry sometimes, and I'm tired of this feeling. It's time for me to take the initiative again, but this time actually make a difference.
So, I want to join the Coast Guard.
Wait, what? This guy just said he's a socialist, an anarchist. He's a pacifist. For gods' sakes, he's a vegan. Why would somebody like this want to join the Coast Guard?
Because I feel it's the right thing to do. Truly good work is done in the Coast Guard: search and rescue, environmental protection, defending our nation's citizens, and innocents elsewhere. In fact, I wasn't even sure the Coast Guard was a military agency until six months ago because so much good seems to come out of it. I think that it's saying something that the CG is part of the Department of Homeland Security rather than the Department of Defense, and the Department of Transportation before that. It feels more that the Coast Guard is a branch for the people rather than one for the power.
It's taken me some time to reconcile my beliefs with this desire to join one of the purest forms of hierarchy, to carry a gun, but I don't feel there is a conflict. As an anarchist in the true sense of the word, I have the belief that society would be at its best without hierarchy, without the false societal constructs of class, race, gender and other devices of oppression. But that does not mean that I am against organization. In fact, organization is seen as both necessary and desirable by anarchists in that it can facilitate the accomplishment of that which just is not possible alone, and I personally believe that this includes the defense of my fellow humans and the planet as a whole.
The hierarchy in the Coast Guard is appropriate considering its mission: to properly coordinate activities, to serve and protect, a rigid structure is needed. But the unique feature of the Coast Guard's hierarchy is that it is fair, at least more so than that which hangs on the neck of society at large. One's rank is based on deeds and merit, on time in service and the good that has been done. It is not based on race, creed, gender, or class, not on favoritism and funny handshakes, and where it has been determined that such unfortunate criteria has been used, there appears to be genuine attempts to rectify the situation. This is something that I could be proud of, something that I've rarely, if ever, witnessed as a civilian.
Carrying a gun has seemed vulgar to me in the past, unnecessarily aggressive, brutish. As a civilian, it still doesto some extent. I don't have such a low opinion of humanity that I feel I must be armed against others at all times. But were I to actually put myself in harms way because I am trying to protect others? Defending my wife, my family, my neighbors? I may be a pacifist, but I'm not an idiot. Self defense and defense of those who you love is completely justified in dire circumstances. I understand that as a Guardian I may be putting myself in harms way in order to protect those who I call fellow citizens, and I'm okay with that. My pacifism ends when innocents are in harm's way. I will not be an aggressor, though, I won't fight for power, for conquest, for spite. Were this any other military branch, I would constantly be questioning my mission, but with the Coast Guard, I feel that I would be doing the right thing.
You can probably tell that I'm not the type of person to just blindly follow orders. My ethics run through the core of my being, and I cannot violate them and still feel fully human. But in the Coast Guard, I feel that I could trust my superior officers to have the same strength of their convictions, that anything I may be ordered to do will be for the right reasons. I don't have the same trust of the other branches of the military, and certainly not of those in power in the civilian world.
I wish to be part of a culture of integrity and honor, a culture dedicated to preserving that which is good in humanity. I want to learn from those who feel the same way, and I want to lead those who wish to learn as well.
So, here I am. I've made my choice: I want to be an officer in the United States Coast Guard. To serve and protect the people of our nation, to both follow and lead with honor and integrity and to be an example of what our species is capable of when our goal is the betterment of the world we inhabit.
A year ago, I would have laughed if somebody told me I'd desire to join the military, probably laugh so hard I'd get a hernia. Now it's the only thing I can see myself doing. Perhaps you feel the same way.
-- Atom X |
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chukles Trusted Member / Retired Recruiter
 Moderator
 Posts:2860

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| 28 Apr 2010 03:41 AM |
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Welcome aboard. That was a mouthful! A couple of points before I sign off for the night. Why do you think the Coast Guard would not have the same issues that you experience in the civilian world? The military branches, Coast Guard included, has many of the same aspects. you will be assigned a job, for a long period of time that you may not like similar to the issues you posted above. You will be making the same, or similar decisions in the Coast Guard that you did when you wrote yourself a job. You will be called upon to carry and bear arms, not just as pacifist, but as the aggressor when called upon. As a member of a active military organization, you are required to bear arms and use these arms in the fulfillment of your duties. As an officer, you will be required to order your people into aggressive situations. Remember, the Coast Guard is an active duty armed service that has fought in every major battle the us has been involved in, to include present situation. Vr,
Vr, Chuck These poor, plain men, dwellers upon the lonely sands of Hatteras, took their lives in their hands, and, at the most imminent risk crossed the most tumultuous sea…and all for what? That others might live to see home and friends. — Annual Report of the U.S. Life- Saving Service, 1885 Recruiting Website Read here for answers to the most often asked questions about joining the Coast Guard! |
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| I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted Coastie, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves. |
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JackHammer
 New Member
 Posts:2

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| 28 Apr 2010 03:46 AM |
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I hope the Coast Guard DOES NOT CONSIDER YOU - you sound like a whiner and we don't need any more of those. Grow up already and quit whining!! I think you would be a horrible candidate and I hope never to meet you out in the fleet - stay home!! |
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rmiller3006
 New Member
 Posts:15

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| 28 Apr 2010 04:24 AM |
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Atom X,
I read your post several times and there is something about what you have written that has me questioning. I admit to having doubts about your motivations for choosing the CG at this point in your life.
I am not qualified to ask or address any of your statements regarding the military and all of its branches. But I would like to ask you about your feelings and relationships you have mentioned regarding former employers and co-workers.
I do not know you as an individual. I only have what you have written. My concern is that from what I am reading, you have not been very tolerant in the past of those whose opinions on these fundamental issues are different from yours.
I agree that the CG is "a culture of integrity and honor." But it is also a culture made up of many people who have different beliefs, values, desires and expectations in life. You are going to have to take orders that you will not agree with. You will possibly be sent to assist in other countries regardless of whether or not you feel we should be involved. You could be stuck on a ship for months with superiors and/or those lower in rank that you absolutely despise one minute and then will be expected to defend them with your life the next.
I am curious to know why these things were such a detriment in the past but you now come across as willing to overlook them in the future.
rmiller
<!-- Edit -->Last Edited : 4/27/2010 11:37:49 PM GMT |
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 28 Apr 2010 06:00 AM |
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chukles said... Welcome aboard. That was a mouthful! Yeah, I know. It's been swimming in my head for a long time. chukles said... A couple of points before I sign off for the night.
Why do you think the Coast Guard would not have the same issues that you experience in the civilian world? The military branches, Coast Guard included, has many of the same aspects. you will be assigned a job, for a long period of time that you may not like similar to the issues you posted above. You will be making the same, or similar decisions in the Coast Guard that you did when you wrote yourself a job. You will be called upon to carry and bear arms, not just as pacifist, but as the aggressor when called upon. As a member of a active military organization, you are required to bear arms and use these arms in the fulfillment of your duties. As an officer, you will be required to order your people into aggressive situations.
Remember, the Coast Guard is an active duty armed service that has fought in every major battle the us has been involved in, to include present situation.
Vr, I do understand that. Not all aspects of the Coast Guard's mission are to my liking, I admit, but I feel the civilian world's "mission" is no better, if not worse. Is the Coast Guard itself dog-eat-dog amongst its own members? Am I expected to stab you in the back so that I can have your position? And if I choose not to betray you, must you betray me just to keep your position? I've been reading up on the coast guard, looking up the directives posted at uscg.mil, getting to grips with what the Coast Guard expects of me and what I can expect of the Coast Guard. One particular directive that I've come across has influenced my decision greatly, CI 1900.8: Conscientious Objectors and the Requirement to Bear Arms. I've read over this several times, and due to this I believe that I may not only have a place in the CG, but that I could thrive and contribute greatly. My hopeful career path in the Coast Guard is as a SAR aviator, a non-combatant position perfectly in line with my beliefs and values. I fully understand that this is a very competitive assignment and I may not qualify/be selected to pursue it, but I'm not deterred. Even if I'm not destined to become an aviator, there are many other positions and postings within the CG that I would be comfortable filling and capable of excelling in. There are also degrees of aggression that I am comfortable with. I fully understand that the CG is tasked with law enforcement amongst its missions. Preventing piracy, drug smuggling, human trafficking and other illegal activities involve many aggressive situations and the use of force, but I don't believe this use of force is aggression that should be avoided, especially when these activities are taking place within the confines of our country's borders and waters. I may not agree with current domestic drug laws or immigration policies or whatever, but the fact remains that those activities the Coast Guard intervenes in take a very real human toll, and were it not for that intervention, the toll would be much higher. I'll talk to my recruiter, of course (if I ever hear from one). It may turn out that the CG is not for me after all, or that I'm a perfect fit. I'm keeping my eyes fully open and aiming high. Edited to make quoting clearer.<!-- Edit --> Last Edited : 4/28/2010 7:28:35 AM GMT |
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 28 Apr 2010 06:27 AM |
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rmiller3006 said... Atom X,
I read your post several times and there is something about what you have written that has me questioning. I admit to having doubts about your motivations for choosing the CG at this point in your life.
I am not qualified to ask or address any of your statements regarding the military and all of its branches. But I would like to ask you about your feelings and relationships you have mentioned regarding former employers and co-workers.
I do not know you as an individual. I only have what you have written. My concern is that from what I am reading, you have not been very tolerant in the past of those whose opinions on these fundamental issues are different from yours. I'm not sure I quite understand this. Surely you don't mean my intolerance for my bigot boss. Even the CG has directives for stamping out just these attitudes and behaviors. As far as my perspective on the way employees are being treated at my current job, perhaps I am being intolerant of my employer's views. Many capitalists claim that it's the law of the jungle, that employees are just there to be exploited, right? I fundamentally feel this is wrong, though, especially since I've been the exploited. If there's an injustice, do we not have the right, the duty to be outraged? To fight for change? I understand that my views will be unpopular. Just look at JackHammer's reply for an example. But I don't write off anybody as a human being just because I feel they are wrongheaded. rmiller3006 said... I agree that the CG is "a culture of integrity and honor." But it is also a culture made up of many people who have different beliefs, values, desires and expectations in life. You are going to have to take orders that you will not agree with. You will possibly be sent to assist in other countries regardless of whether or not you feel we should be involved. You could be stuck on a ship for months with superiors and/or those lower in rank that you absolutely despise one minute and then will be expected to defend them with your life the next. A human is a human. I feel that all lives are worth saving, that all but the most damaged of people are redeemable. I may dislike somebody to the core, but when it comes down to it, I'd risk my life for anybody who's in danger because I don't feel that anybody deserves a death sentence. My view is that the only justifiable situation in which to take a life is in self defense and the defense of those you are responsible for, even to the point that not doing everything you can to prevent the death of somebody you are defending is tantamount to killing them yourself. rmiller3006 said... I am curious to know why these things were such a detriment in the past but you now come across as willing to overlook them in the future.
rmiller These were not necessarily the issues that I had in the past. These were issues that I was unwilling or unable to deal with effectively until more recently. I am confident in myself as a person, in my convictions, like I never was before. I see the world through different eyes than I did ten years ago. As a teenager, I felt resentment for the structure of the military, the orders and obedience. I also naïvely felt that I wouldn't be changed by the outside world like I would by the military. Now, my views are somewhat reversed. I fully acknowledge how the civilian world has factored into my changing as a person, and I feel comfortable with the ways I would be changed by the Coast Guard. I feel I have a lot to gain as well as a lot to offer. |
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 28 Apr 2010 06:46 AM |
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JackHammer said... I hope the Coast Guard DOES NOT CONSIDER YOU - you sound like a whiner and we don't need any more of those. Grow up already and quit whining!! I think you would be a horrible candidate and I hope never to meet you out in the fleet - stay home!! Glad to have your opinion, JackHammer. Back in the day, you were what I felt all military personnel must be like: aggressive, loud, abusive, brutish, rude... Were you to see me on the street, would you yell at me because I look like a freak? After all, as a civilian, I sport dreadlocks, an unkempt beard, I dress all in black and wear a duster most of the year, and if there's even a hint of sunlight I wear sunglasses. Yet here I am, willing to enter the toughest job I've ever faced, completely uproot my life and loose this outward identity and personal freedom that I currently enjoy, and all because I'm a whiner? Spare me your ire. I admit, I do have many grievances, and I've voiced them in support of my decision to pursue a career in the Coast Guard. You don't work with me, friend, you don't know what I deal with in reality, how I handle each situation, what the real impact of what I've said is in the lives of the people whom I work with and am employed by. You call me a whiner? You want the Coast Guard to reject me outright because I am trying to do what's right, to have a positive impact on the lives of the people of this country? To have a positive impact on you're life? You don't know me, and I don't know you. You may not be loud, abusive, brutish or rude in real life. Hell, if we were deployed on the same cutter, I may be your best friend and greatest ally. But were I to judge you on what you've first said to me alone? I'd say I'm ashamed to have you representing my country and the Coast Guard. You are supposed to be a representative of this country, and every time you put on your uniform you are a representative of the Coast Guard. As such, it is your job to put your best foot forward and make people proud to know you and be protected by you. I don't know why you felt compelled to be such an ugly representative in this instance, but if and when I join the fleet, I know I won't make the same mistake as you. |
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Pmackey
 Advanced Member
 Posts:515

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| 28 Apr 2010 01:50 PM |
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atomx- have you thought of missionary work? I think you might find that to be more rewarding than anything you've ever encountered.
Proud Mom of SR Mackey |
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| Proud Mom of FA MACKEY USCGC JARVIS (WHEC 725) Honolulu, HI |
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 28 Apr 2010 08:32 PM |
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PMackey said... atomx- have you thought of missionary work? I think you might find that to be more rewarding than anything you've ever encountered. I don't want to come across as flippant, PMackey, but missionary work is not what I would find rewarding. If I were to consider myself anything, I'd say I were a Secular Humanist, a non-believer in the existence of gods but a committed individual to the betterment of the human race and all we encounter. Throw a touch of Buddhism in there for some personal centering and an interest in the Hindu myths for explorations of the human condition and you've got a decent surface picture of my "spirituality." I looked into the Peace Corps and AmeriCorps for a bit while I was still in college, wanting to contribute to the lives of those less fortunate, and I appreciate part of these groups' missions to some extent. However, too much of the work involved cheerleading for the US and the "American Way" while actually being little more than a band-aid for the peoples' plight (in the case of AmeriCorps), or even a greater hard to the sustaining of societies in the long run. I could not put up that much of a front. With missionary, work, though, these same problems are often compounded by the inevitable culture change being leveraged by the "message" being put forth by the missionaries. Don't get me wrong, though. I have no doubt that those who do this work are indeed good people and feel that they are doing the right thing, but the fact remains that throughout history and continuing to this day, the side-effect of missionary work is cultural upheaval and often the long-term dependence of those helped on the missionary organization. The Coast Guard may not be a dedicated humanitarian organization, but at least it's more up-front about the impact of its work and its real mission. I fully acknowledge that the nature of any military organization means secrecy and activities which I may personally find fault with, but I'm definitely not comfortable with making the insistence that the organization I'm working with is all-good, and with the Coast Guard, I feel that I could make that distinction freely. There are even directives expressly protecting the freedom of Guardians to voice their protest to Coast Guard and government activities. I appreciate your engagement in this dialogue, PMackey, and I want you to know that I'm not trying to dismiss your suggestions lightly, but I feel I can do more good in the long term as part of the Coast Guard than I ever could in a state-sponsored or religiously-affiliated aid organization. — Atom X |
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Cooch Trusted Member / Recruiter
 Veteran Member
 Posts:2965

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| 29 Apr 2010 12:33 AM |
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I'm going to be perfectly honest with you, and you most likely will not like what I have to say. Based on your own words, you are what is considered a conscientious objector. You admitted yourself that you were anti-military. Based on that and that alone, I would disqualify you. To begin with, the Coast Guard is not a 'plan b' for employment. Less than 5% of all applicants actually get into the Coast Guard. That means that we only select the very best to serve with us. I couldn't trust my safety, and the safety of my shipmates to someone who doesn't believe in what we are doing 100%. I need to believe that if the situation arose, that every member of the Coast Guard would be able to draw and use their weapon. Based on your own writing, I don't believe that you fit the mold. Regardless of what our primary missions are, the Coast Guard is a MILITARY service. We have people doing different missions all over the world, including Iraq. We have fought in every one of America's wars since 1790, and we will fight wars again, without question. I'm glad that you think so highly of our organization. We definitely work hard to maintain the public's trust and high regard. I love this organization more than you could possibly know. Because I love it so much, I could never be the person that allowed you to join it. To top all of that off, you desire to be an officer. I couldn't trust someone that was once anti-military to be my shipmate. I definitely couldn't trust someone with that line of thinking to be a leader of men and women, and be responsible for the safety and well-being of all of them. While I wish you luck in whatever it is you decide to pursue, I hope for the safety of all of my shipmates that you don't enter the Coast Guard.
"I'm not the smartest fellow in the world, but I can sure pick smart colleagues." - Franklin D. Roosevelt <!-- Edit -->Last Edited : 4/28/2010 7:07:13 PM GMT |
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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, but spare me your BS" - Yours Truly |
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JackHammer
 New Member
 Posts:2

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| 29 Apr 2010 12:59 AM |
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Cooch said it better than I but it still stands. I wasn't trying to be nasty or a loud mouth whatever, it just seemed like from what you said, your heart wasn't in it like it should be. It's not a plan B or C only to use when you can't get along with people in the private sector. I need my shipmates to be there 110% and it just didn't sound like that was you. You can't pick and choose your missions based on how you "feel" about things-there's no room for that. Good luck. |
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Pmackey
 Advanced Member
 Posts:515

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| 29 Apr 2010 01:26 AM |
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BRAVO COOCH!!! BRAVO!
Proud Mom of SR Mackey |
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| Proud Mom of FA MACKEY USCGC JARVIS (WHEC 725) Honolulu, HI |
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Coastie 585
 New Member
 Posts:8

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| 29 Apr 2010 01:28 AM |
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I am going to have to side with Cooch and Jack. The CG does not sound like the job for you. |
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rmiller3006
 New Member
 Posts:15

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| 29 Apr 2010 01:35 AM |
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Well said Cooch! You seem to always know just the right things to say in just the right way...you could give lessons
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lan56
 Basic Member
 Posts:441

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| 29 Apr 2010 02:57 AM |
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Boy just wait till you get your hands on the SIG P229 at the range, and are told to shoot the practical course--aiming right at a human-shaped silhouette, simulating defending yourself during a shootout; or the pugil sticks in boot camp to test how well you could fight for your life hand-to-hand against an aggressor. Good luck.<!-- Edit --> Last Edited : 4/29/2010 3:58:27 AM GMT |
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 29 Apr 2010 03:48 AM |
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I hear what everyone has said, and I appreciate your candidness. JackHammer, thank you for your second reply. I do feel better having seen a less reactionary side of you. I suppose I'm disappointed in the sentiments expressed here. Not in anyone's words in particular, nor in the need for people to express said sentiments. But this climate of misunderstanding that's developed seems difficult to escape. I was anti-military, no doubt. I'm still a conscientious person with a deep sense of ethics which include not killing in cold blood, not encroaching on a fellow human's autonomy or right to live, especially not for political gain. I feel that my duty as an honorable human being is to protect such things. And I don't believe that by serving in the Coast Guard I would be in conflict with this personal sense of duty. You (and I'm addressing all of the replies here) seem so quick to conclude that because I don't wish to kill another human being that I wouldn't. You would certainly be wrong. If it were your life in danger, and the only way I could prevent your death would be to kill your assailant, you bet I would. And I would certainly kill to protect myself. To not use force to prevent the death of those you have been charged with defending (including yourself) is the same as being the killer. Know that I would fight tooth and nail for you, because I'm ordered to, because I would not have your death on my conscience, but mostly because I believe that it is my duty as a human being to protect you and save you if need be. Getting past the unfortunate belief that I would not kill for the good of my fellow soldier or myself, there's the belief that I am still anti-military. Wrong. I have my political beliefs, my humanitarian beliefs, and part of those are that we have no right to be aggressors for personal or political gain. Taking a persons life or autonomy just because he or she is in my way is wrong. But I do not believe that is the military's mission, even if you do. I believe that the military, and specifically the Coast Guard, exist to serve and protect the citizens of the United States, and that, I feel, is something to be proud of. The military may be misused in some instances, but I don't feel that it is rotten at its core, at least not any longer. If I did, why the hell would I want to join? I do not believe that we pop into existence with our politics fully formed. No three year old is left- or right-wing. That it took me at least two decades to come to my current political and social ideals means that I have examined and explored those ideals deeply, and now I am more certain than ever that this is what I want to do. So, the Coast Guard is not a Plan B or C, or even a Plan A. It's where I feel I am supposed to be. You should be so lucky to have recruits with such strong convictions, such certainty of purpose and self-knowledge so as not to be swayed or brainwashed, but to truly be aware of what they are doing and why. It's not that I "can't cut it" in the civilian world. It's that the Coast Guard is where I need to be. In response to Ian56: If I'm ever confronted by an attacker, know that I would do everything in my power to beat them down and keep them down, make them hurt and never think of attacking me again. I would not attack first, but I'm not some punching bag. Edited for clarity<!-- Edit --> Last Edited : 4/29/2010 7:20:27 AM GMT |
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Pmackey
 Advanced Member
 Posts:515

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| 29 Apr 2010 10:36 AM |
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 I think you should write books! You seem to like to write a lot! You could write about many great things that could help humanity! 
Proud Mom of SR Mackey |
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| Proud Mom of FA MACKEY USCGC JARVIS (WHEC 725) Honolulu, HI |
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Old Guard2 Trusted Member
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| 29 Apr 2010 11:07 AM |
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One simple question Atom... How old are you? You have a multitude of life experiences and you mention 9/11 as an adult. I'm just curious as to your age. I will hold opinion & tongue on all else.
Proud mom of SN Robertson, Colin USCGC Seneca
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| OS A School 08-12 |
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Gears Trusted Member / Recruiter/
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| 29 Apr 2010 12:54 PM |
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United States Coast Guard Creed I am proud to be a United States Coast Guardsman. I revere that long line of expert seamen who by their devotion to duty and sacrifice of self have made it possible for me to be a member of a service honored and respected in peace and in war, throughout the world. I never, by work or deed, will bring reproach upon the fair name of my service, nor permit others to do so unchallenged. I will cheerfully and willingly obey all lawful orders. I will always be on time to relieve, and shall endeavor
to do more, rather than less, then my share.I will always be at my station, alert and attending to my duties. I shall, so far as I am able, bring to my seniors solutions, not problems. I shall live joyously, but always with due regard for the rights and privileges of others. I shall endeavor to be a model citizen in the community in which I live. I shall sell life dearly to an enemy of my country, but give it freely to rescue those in peril. AtomX, I don't think you can live up to our standards.
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. - Mark Twain |
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| Fighting spirit.- You know what this is. Without it, you are only a human biped who wears pants. With it, you are a live, red-blooded go-getter-one who will succeed. Have you the grit to stay with a hard job? Never say "I can't." Forget there is such a phrase. Don't be a quitter. "A man may be down but never out" - until he admits it."
-From the U.S. Navy Bluejackets' Manual circa 1940 |
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Pmackey
 Advanced Member
 Posts:515

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| 29 Apr 2010 01:25 PM |
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AMEN gears!
Proud Mom of SR Mackey |
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| Proud Mom of FA MACKEY USCGC JARVIS (WHEC 725) Honolulu, HI |
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Cooch Trusted Member / Recruiter
 Veteran Member
 Posts:2965

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| 29 Apr 2010 01:37 PM |
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atomx said... However, too much of the work involved cheerleading for the US and the "American Way"
atomx said... I was anti-military, no doubt.
Oath Of Enlistment said... I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
Tell me then. How can someone who doesn't believe in the American way, and was once anti-military, bear true faith and allegiance to the United States of America? You mock the United States of America and what we stand for by putting the words American Way in quotes, as if they are a joke to you. And we are by no means cheerleaders. We are believers and defenders of what we believe is the greatest country on Earth. We take what we do very seriously.
If you are now, or ever have been anti-military, you are disqualified.
And as far as this statement goes:
atomx said... I'm still a conscientious person with a deep sense of ethics which include not killing in cold blood, not encroaching on a fellow human's autonomy or right to live, especially not for political gain. I can't tell you how offended I am by that. Are you seriously under the delusion that the other branches of the Armed Forces "kill in cold blood"? We all operate under strict ethics in the U.S. Military, as well as rules of engagement. It's clear that you still bear a lot of contempt for the missions of the military. You may be telling us that you don't, but when you make statements like those listed above, we can all see right through you.
"I'm not the smartest fellow in the world, but I can sure pick smart colleagues." - Franklin D. Roosevelt |
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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, but spare me your BS" - Yours Truly |
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jen899193 Trusted Member
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| 29 Apr 2010 02:04 PM |
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well said cooch!!! atomx....i am a firm believer of freedom of speech and an even bigger believer of freedom of thought. however, saying that, i also realize there is a time and place for everything. how can you honestly believe that you would find support on a forum that here for the primary purpose of supporting one another with our friends and family in the military. are you one of those people who doesn't believe the coast guard is a member of the armed forces? big mistake. even though the coast guard is not combat oriented, it does not mean they are not combat trained. whether it is in the middle east or the shores of the continental united states, they are here to protect you and your rights. you should be grateful that they believe so strongly in this country and it's ideals......otherwise, you might seriously have been blasted!!
Jen
Proud Coastguard Mom of
OS3 Church, Brittney R. Camslant Chesapeake, VA
"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
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| ~Jen~
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 29 Apr 2010 05:58 PM |
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OldGuard said... One simple question Atom... How old are you? You have a multitude of life experiences and you mention 9/11 as an adult. I'm just curious as to your age.
I will hold opinion & tongue on all else. I am 28 as of this writing. |
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 29 Apr 2010 06:02 PM |
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Gears said...
[snip]... I will always be on time to relieve, and shall endeavor
to do more, rather than less, then my share. ...[/snip] AtomX,
I don't think you can live up to our standards. What makes you think that I won't be there to relieve you, on time and willing to do more than my share? Did I ever once imply such a thing? That I am not a person of integrity and duty? A person more than willing to do what it takes to help those who depend on me and do my job? Please, explain. |
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Old Guard2 Trusted Member
 Moderator
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| 29 Apr 2010 06:06 PM |
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atomx said...
I am 28 as of this writing. With the current slow down in recruiting and the challenges of being accepted to OCS, including but not limited to the fact that you have not completed college, your chances of getting into the Coast Guard are extremely limited because of your age. So all the rest of it is at a point that is almost moot. I wish you the best of luck in finding the career niche that is yours and one where you can succeed and be comfortable in your own skin, as it were. However, I honestly believe for all the mentioned reasons by the lovely people of this forum and your age, this is not the niche for you.
Proud mom of SN Robertson, Colin USCGC Seneca
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| OS A School 08-12 |
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Gears Trusted Member / Recruiter/
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 Posts:4444

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| 29 Apr 2010 06:13 PM |
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AtomX, I didn't highlight that for your benefit. It just happens to be the part of the Creed I've spent the last decade striving to uphold.
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. - Mark Twain |
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| Fighting spirit.- You know what this is. Without it, you are only a human biped who wears pants. With it, you are a live, red-blooded go-getter-one who will succeed. Have you the grit to stay with a hard job? Never say "I can't." Forget there is such a phrase. Don't be a quitter. "A man may be down but never out" - until he admits it."
-From the U.S. Navy Bluejackets' Manual circa 1940 |
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 29 Apr 2010 06:54 PM |
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Oath of Enlistment said... I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. As a Guardian I would be tasked, first and, in my opinion, most importantly, with defending the United States and its Constitution against all comers. This, I have absolutely no problem with. In fact, I believe deeply in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I believe that United States is the greatest political nation in the world thanks to this legendary document and the laws which protect it. But there are glaring differences between our Constitution and the "American Way." Putting that phrase in quotes is not a mockery, but an indication that the United States and its constitution is not the way Americans truly act. And as a Guardian, I would not be protecting the "American Way," but the United States and the Constitution itself. And I'm saddened that so many can't even comprehend somebody who was once anti-military maturing in such a way that they are now not only reconciled with the notion of the military, but want to serve! Tell me, how many have been all gung-ho about the military, about going to war, just to realize that it was not what they believed in? I'll say it again, you should be so lucky as to have people of such sound mind and conviction as me joining your ranks. I know what I believe, what I feel is right. I'm not just believing what I've been told.And Cooch, you may be offended that I've used the term "killing in cold blood" to refer to non-defensive killing in wartime, and I certainly respect your perspective on it. The rules of war are somewhat different from the rules in the civilian world, a sad, sad fact. But the fact remains, when you are off the battlefield, when you look back and see the people killed just because they were designated "enemy," not in self-defense but because they were in the way, that is cold-blooded. It may be our orders, and we do what we have to do when we are given orders, but I still find it ethically appalling that those orders may be given. That is why I do consider myself a conscientious objector. I don't mean offense, I mean to tell the truth. Tell me, when the Coast Guard is in a law enforcement mission, say, a drug interdiction raid, are Guardians told to indiscriminately gun down the smugglers, or to do everything in their power to take them into custody alive? If, in this case, Guardians kill in self-defense, that is not cold-blooded, and indeed, killing in cold-blood (killing without sufficient provocation) is expressly forbidden in law enforcement. I didn't mean to offend, but I hope you can see the distinction. |
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 29 Apr 2010 06:56 PM |
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OldGuard said...
With the current slow down in recruiting and the challenges of being accepted to OCS, including but not limited to the fact that you have not completed college, your chances of getting into the Coast Guard are extremely limited because of your age. So all the rest of it is at a point that is almost moot. I wish you the best of luck in finding the career niche that is yours and one where you can succeed and be comfortable in your own skin, as it were. However, I honestly believe for all the mentioned reasons by the lovely people of this forum and your age, this is not the niche for you.
I appreciate your candor, and fully understand the obstacles I am up against. You will not dissuade me. |
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Cooch Trusted Member / Recruiter
 Veteran Member
 Posts:2965

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| 29 Apr 2010 07:03 PM |
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atomx said... That is why I do consider myself a conscientious objector. And that is why are disqualified from military service. I don't know how many times you need to hear it, but it is a fact, not my opinion. You will not be allowed to enter the Coast Guard, or any other Armed Service.
Good luck to you in your future endeavors.
"I'm not the smartest fellow in the world, but I can sure pick smart colleagues." - Franklin D. Roosevelt <!-- Edit -->Last Edited : 4/29/2010 1:07:31 PM GMT |
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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, but spare me your BS" - Yours Truly |
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atomx
 New Member
 Posts:13

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| 29 Apr 2010 07:06 PM |
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jen899193 said... well said cooch!!!
atomx....i am a firm believer of freedom of speech and an even bigger believer of freedom of thought. however, saying that, i also realize there is a time and place for everything. how can you honestly believe that you would find support on a forum that here for the primary purpose of supporting one another with our friends and family in the military. are you one of those people who doesn't believe the coast guard is a member of the armed forces? big mistake. even though the coast guard is not combat oriented, it does not mean they are not combat trained. whether it is in the middle east or the shores of the continental united states, they are here to protect you and your rights. you should be grateful that they believe so strongly in this country and it's ideals......otherwise, you might seriously have been blasted!! I can't expect everybody to read all that I've written—I fully acknowledge that I've been somewhat verbose. But, please, at least skim it. I have no illusions that the Coast Guard is not a military armed force. And never question my belief in the rights of this country and its ideals, especially freedom of speech and of thought, because no other nation in the world compares when it comes to the freedoms protected by our Constitution and those who defend it. I am not blasting a single Guardian, Marine, Soldier, Airman or Sailor for what they do in the service of this country, because I fully understand that it is their duty in the service of the Armed Forces, even if I lament those tasks they are commanded to perform. |
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